GENDER WARS IN MAINSTREAM MUSIC
lelenorlee‘s post regarding ‘Queer Anthems’ made me think back to an unsatisfied e-mail conversation I had with (who I thought to be) a really open-minded, “cool” professor of music. He had proved to the class that he was into a diverse range of music, and had taught a lecture on music which some may find controversial (Is Tammy Wynette’s “Stand By Your Man” meant to be ironic? Or is it just sad? …. etc.). It got me to thinking… mainstream male artists sell like crazy when they push the boundaries to empower themselves, but these boundaries still exist for women. Shouldn’t women give their voice and support female artists who stick it to the man? Or are most of us too brainwashed by (though I don’t want to use this word) partiarchy that we don’t even think about it? Even more so, when I gave my list of ‘Queer Anthems,’ people who I regard as truly breaking the boundaries in their medium, I realized almost all of the mainstream artists I was listing were male, and the one woman whom I listed (Gwen Stefani) has since completely sold out to the only marketable choice for females in mainstream media (looks, product placement/design, and sex).
This thought stream is culminating in the e-mail conversation I had with my professor (in November of last year). He upset me when I found that he does not in fact think out of the box, nor share my enthusiasm for the (hypothetical) questions I was proposing. He fed me bs on how women don’t “stoop” to controversial topics – when what I was precisely saying is that they are not ALLOWED to, which means we do/can not have such a representation of female artists to accept. All I could do was agree and thank him for his time – but maybe y’all have some food for thought on the matter to satisfy my hunger:
On Thu, Nov 8, 2007 at 4:21 PM, Evelyn * <shesonit@gmail.com> wrote:
Have you listened to the songs yet?
Here is the conclusion I came to:
1. Woman making an Eminem-style song about killing a man (re: KIM)
2. What about a woman who gay bashes? —> point about Eminem gay
bashing in many of his songs, then public performance where Elton John
sings in his song and they hold hands (with a look of seriousness) on
national television – Elton is agreeing that Marshall Mathers is
playing a character (Eminem) relevant to the faults of our society (to
prove an artistic/political point). Acceptance from Elton means Eminem
is redeemed.
Eminem is redeemed for everything he says because he is coming out as
a character, but at the same time HE IS STILL ALLOWED TO SAY IT, get a
record contract and sell millions – whereas a woman coming out with
the same thing would probably be seen as feminist crap and would only
get limited underground exposure, never mainstream (this is totally
coming out of guestimating/common sense, I would be interested in
researching how this stereotype is/can be broken).
- Evelyn Shaller-Auslander
On 11/8/07, jeff packman <mus110packman@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Evelyn:
>
> It seems we have touched a nerve here. No, I haven’t listened to the
> songs yet although I am familiar with some of them (e.g., Eminem). I
> am also not aware of Peaches, although my curiosity is piqued. Most
> importantly, I think that you are right in asserting a double standard
> for what it is acceptable for men to say versus women. There is little
> doubt of this in my mind and I see it in action all of the time.
>
> One point I would raise, however, is that perhaps it is acutally
> better for feminist causes (and really, everyone) that women generally
> don’t stoop to gay bashing or serious threats of violence (against
> men, women, racial others etc). I think that part of what is so
> effective about “Earl” is that it is a good, intelligent, and funny
> song. Writing a piece of music such as this is very hard to do and I
> think the payoff is so much more. Often I find that just being
> gratuitously violent, misogynistic, homophobic etc., with a musical
> text is, in many cases, just a cop out for lack of ability to do
> something more interesting. Further, I think that such tactics are
> little more than ploys to create a sensation and make a few bucks on
> the controversy. Obviously, gratuitious anything is in the ears of
> the beholder, but I think the fact that women generally can take the
> high road in these matters in comparison with their male counterparts
> says a lot about the misguidedness of ongoing gender (and other forms
> of) inequality.
>
> Just my two or three cents.
>
> JP
I totally agree. Thanks for the input!
- Evelyn
> On 11/8/07, Evelyn * <shesonit@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Oops, one more thought to clear up my babbling in the previous e-mail:
> >
> > I guess what I am trying to say by bringing up the Eminem controversy, is:
> > – Would a women in today’s age be able to come out with a blatant,
> > nasty, violent song about killing men, rather than using humour (as
> > the Dixie Chicks did)?
> >
> > – Evelyn
> >
>
On 11/8/07, jeff packman <mus110packman@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Evelyn:
>
> You raise a very good question and the only answer I can give is I
> don’t know. I think that these days, no matter who releases such a
> song, there will be some kind of reaction/outcry. The fact that such
> a song is performed by a woman, however, would (I think) stimulate
> debate in a different way than if it were a man. I think a lot would
> also depend on genre and the “normative” place of violence and its
> representation as well as the typical representation of gender roles.
>
> I’m afraid that that is not much in the way of a concrete answer–and
> I don’t think I can or should try to give you one. I do think the
> fact that you are considering music in such terms is excellent and I
> encourage you to keep it up. There might be a larger project in
> there…music, women, and representations of violence or something
> like that.
>
> Best,
> Dr. Packman
>
>
>Posted by emokid2625.
on September 16, 2008 on 1:16 am
Great post! You make a really good point about mainstream music that admittedly burns me a bit. I find it so weird that women are encouraged to stick with the “sexy” image and not to really go beyond that. No boundaries are being broken and the labels can feel safe to know that they have another “empowered, sassy and sexy” artist produced in the empowered, sassy and sexy artist factory. They might make some shocking stunt like imply homosexuality in their music video, but it keeps the men really interested and some of the women thinking that she would be a role model. I guess that view would have to depend on the genre though. It certainly applies to pop and hip hop.
But where are these boundaries pushed and why aren’t they celebrated? The songs that make it out in to the mainstream world all end up getting dismissed as folky feminist crap. When some do come out and get media attention, the world knows about them (Lets Give Them Something To Talk About by Bonnie Raitt would be an example) but they all eventually get lost in the big mainstream shuffle and go into obscurity. It’s both confusing and annoying.
I probably took this article in a different way than it was intended but you’ve got me thinking about it and for that I thank you.
on September 17, 2008 on 2:16 am
I can see where these questions are coming from, but after reading this post, all I can come up with are more questions, and some tiny thoughts.
1) Would a woman actually ever want to come out with a musical career, based on bashing men and such? Personally, I would think, no. If she wanted to reach the mainstream with such subject matter in her artistic work, she would have to wait for a complete social/gender revolution. It would throw ever single narrow minded individual off balance, because the idea of a woman beating a man is just, horrendous and unfathomable. Since when did being a girl encompass physical strength over men?
2) A lot of mainstream music, as sad as it is to admit, and it seems that I am constantly admitting this to myself everyday, is that it’s all about making a buck. For men, the misogynistic-macho guy crap is what sells, and for women, Diet-feminism and Porno-power is what sends their careers into the spotlight.
These artists sell their music based on the markets in which their target audience resides in. The PCD’s will cater to the club-hopping, booty shaking public, while Peaches will target her music towards boundary-pushing advocates.
So I guess the end result is of my rant is this: Would there be a market for a female singer, writing songs about beating up men and violent acts?
*If you can, check out Natalie Portman’s SNL Spoof about herself. It poses an interesting idea, as well, the song she raps to is catchy, and unbelievably violent in nature. It’s obviously meant for a comedic purpose, but sometimes I wonder if it would succeed if it were to be released into the mainstream…
on September 20, 2008 on 5:17 pm
aside from being brash and unappologetic, what about women being powerful business women with high stakes in the industry? Like the hugely marketed divas or the Beyonce’s with their hands in everything. Isn’t that a bigger accomplishment than being loved-to-be-hated like eminem? I know it’s a different point than what you’re making but I think your prof has a point (even if it’s only one side of the story).
on July 2, 2011 on 11:24 am
Howdy! I could have sworn I’ve been to this site before but after reading through some of the post I realized it’s new to me. Anyhow, I’m definitely happy I found it and I’ll be book-marking and checking back frequently!